is there a plan c or over the fiscal cliff. dan henninger, editorial board member. mary anastasia o'grady and jason riley. where do we stand right now with the collapse of plan b? >> well, it's no fun being john boehner right now. he's still in a tight spot and the concern that the republicans have is that obama's panel strength and as we go over the cliff and tax rates go up. but i really think the buck stops with the president here. when you go into the negotiating sessions, paul and you're expected to make concessions, but you're expect today get something in return and boehner made a major concession on rights and the president is giving him nothing in return to take that to his caucus and say, this is what happened in the horse trading. it's all or nothing, obama seems determined to humiliate the opposition. >> paul: boehner made two concessions, first 800 billion on the table in revenue and don't raise rates when the president said no he, you've got to raise rates. he said okay, a concession on rates, an offer first we'll vote for a million dollar tax increase